Nursery?

Thanks Kelandra. Only one point is failing in your very good translation:

Quote from Kelandra

but Aztekior condemns that as too complicated.

I can not see any hover-text. My browser does not show the title-popup.

And why shoult so a lang way be better as a good communication. At one step we need Wilds, at other steps we need Breedings. We are a community and can forsure try a little Speeking about und can find a for all good passing rule. In the news-thread the users are prakticing communication. So I had to give my thanks.

Welchen Browser nutzt du? Ich bin mir recht sicher, dass es immer eine Art Vorschau gibt, auf welche Seite man nach dem Klick landen wird - finde ich auch im Bezug auf Phishing-Seiten u.ä. nicht uninteressant. Ich nutze beispielsweise Safari, da erscheint nur unten links ganz klein das Ziel des Links.

*****

What browser do you use? I'm pretty sure they all have a simple way of telling where a link wll lead.

Of course communication between users is always the best way to avoid frustration. Not all users of the site are users of the forums, however, which is why I'd prefer the solution suggested by Exterminans.

Hier läuft der Firefox mit deaktivierter title-Anzeige. Ich nutze nichts mit unvermeidbaren auto-Tooltips. Mich würde der zufällige, ungewollte Fresszettelkram nervös machen. Ich bin nur hier, weil title deaktivierbar sind.
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Here runs the Firefox with deactivated title announcement. I use nothing with inevitable auto-tool tips. The accidental, unintentional fluid paper-junk would make me nervous. I am only here because titles are deactivateable.

Yes, the solution suggested by Exterminans will help. Anyway, I'm hoping, the abandoning for help will be not so excessive at the event-starting-times. The end-time can make the most sense. We will see.

Quote from Kelandra

A quick summary for the English-only speakers.

Aztekior defended the right to trash. His own experience was that at the beginning of some event he abandoned his non-event plants and then picked up some seeds from the wild garden One of those was bred and so he trashed it - there is no limitless abandoning and he did not want a bred variant so he did not have much choice. He even considers the breeding and abandoning of event plants rude and thoughtless, when it is done at the beginning of an event period. If he could not trash he would be forced to play the way others want hom to instead of his own way.

I see what he's saying here. Yes, I agree with him; I don't like it when people breed event plants at the beginning of the event, either. At that point I prefer parentless, and if I got a bred one I would be a bit annoyed. I only breed event plants at the END of the event, when the wild ones will no longer be generated, so anyone who wants an event plant will need to take a bred one. At that point, a player can't be picky; if he/she still wants an event plant, the player has to take what he gets.

Quote from Kelandra

Others have reminded him that he connot tell the rest of the players how to play just so his own needs are fit perfectly and so he would just have to live with getting an abandoned plant now and then as well as others will have to live with their seed being trashed.

That is true too. I am always a bit saddened when an event seed that I bred for the wild in order to be NICE to other people gets trashed, particularly if it's an event plant that can ONLY be gotten bred. (Such as the christmas stars.) I've had some of my released Christmas Stars get trashed before, and I was a bit peeved; if someone was going to trash it, why even pick it up? Was the person just wanting to prevent someone else from getting it? Why not gift it on the gifting thread instead of trashing it, if you don't have the abandon option? It was an EVENT plant, after all! So you can see why someone who is trying to do others a favor can get a little upset at someone else trashing the plant, no?

Quote from Kelandra

Basically Aztekior supports a nursery as it allows different playing styles without much interference. As an alternative he suggets a mouse-over function wher you can tell what plant you'll get before picking it up. Urusta described a way to do this very thing within the existing system (get plant number, copy into another plant's page) but Aztekior condemns that as too complicated.

I know about Urusta's method, but I've never used it, because I agree with Aztekior; it's too complicated to want to do for every seed.

Quote from Kelandra

A thing worth translating however ist Nephele's post:
"What I don't get is: the game does not make any distinction between bred and parentless seeds, the only difference being that some have a family tree to look at and others haven't. It should, therefore, not matter if the seed you pick up is bred or parentless. If anything, the bred variant should be more desirable as ist is, in several instances, the only way to get a specific variant."

It's just a matter of preference. To some it doesn't matter, but to others it does. To me it doesn't really matter so much, but I've seen many people who want a plant with "parentless parents", or which is parentless itself. I generally PREFER parentless; it just feels more that the plant is mine, without any interference from anyone else.

On the other hand, it's kind of fun to have a plant with a "history" as well. Wasn't there one plant being gifted around from one person to another, to specifically have a really long gifting history?

Quote from Kelandra

I personally don't need a nursery as I dont mind long plant histories and like a plant with a nice family treed as a surprise from the wild garden. If I wanted to avoid that at all costs I'd use Urusta's method as I realize that trashing might offend the breeder.

Honestly, if there was a nursery as well, most people will probably use the wild garden, and be glad that they don't have to worry about the parented seeds. So in a way it's a way to get rid of seeds from the garden permanently, which is a little sad, but better than them getting trashed. On the other hand, it's also a way for people to know where to look for the event seeds that others breed and deliberately abandon for people, when they are unable to find them in the wild. Also this way people won't end up trashing the "bred only" varieties that they see in the wild, not REALIZING that they are breed only variants. And... for those who DO like a history (which sometimes I do), it's a place to go to find seeds that DO have a history to them.

Quote from Exterminans

To me there appears a solution which is actually even simpler than introducing a new zone (which most players would either missinterpret or just ignore). Instead of picking up the seed by clicking on it, you would be redirected to the detail page of the seed first. You then had the chance to inspect the seed (and possible lineages / previous owners), before actually picking up the seed.
Any objections?

This is both simple and logical so no objections here.

I must admit that I too prefer parentless plants (it's not a major issue for me though & I really don't care how many people may have picked up a seed before me) but for me that is part of the challenge as I also like to find most of my plants for myself. As in most things, if I take the easy path I get bored.

Quote from MiaSkywalker

Wasn't there one plant being gifted around from one person to another, to specifically have a really long gifting history?

Yes! That was my Traveling Tulip thread! I wish I could get it again - it definitely has the longest history and even Exterminans took it at one point. Unfortunately, it stopped because the last person who took it, isn't playing any more.

On another point - I do not understand why someone would breed an event plant at the beginning, since there would already be seeds in the Wild Garden and I would think they would want to keep the seeds they breed. Makes no sense to me.

Quote from truelinor

Makes no sense to me.

Since when do people only act in a way that makes sense?

Yeah, the Travelling Tulip game was fun! Maybe we should mount an expedition looking for the lost tulip... let's send others to follow its path!

Quote from Kelandra

Since when do people only act in a way that makes sense?

Yeah, the Travelling Tulip game was fun! Maybe we should mount an expedition looking for the lost tulip... let's send others to follow its path!

Unfortunately, as she said it is now in a garden of someone who no longer plays. Could be a situation where the person has no control over it. I think we'd need to simply start a new one. I never had the chance to join in the last game, but I think it would be fun.

Quote from Exterminans

To me there appears a solution which is actually even simpler than introducing a new zone (which most players would either missinterpret or just ignore). Instead of picking up the seed by clicking on it, you would be redirected to the detail page of the seed first. You then had the chance to inspect the seed (and possible lineages / previous owners), before actually picking up the seed.
Any objections?

This is a good idea as well. The only problem is that implementing it might not be as simple as it seems. It may not work the same in all browsers; it may not work at all if someone has either pop ups or javascript disabled, depending upon the method used to implement. It IS more elegant and simpler for new players in the long run, but I'm just pointing out (and playing Devil's advocate, for a moment) that it may have problems for a few. Which can probably be worked around by those few, but just saying...

MiaSkywalker, Exterminans's way will not be based by popus. The simplest way should be clicking the seed showes it in its detail-page. Then. If the way was from the wild, the page can show a Button to take the seed. Perhaps an other button can bring back the user into the wild and refreshing the wild. (Or can juse the right click, it's JS-based.)

For the game we juse JS by working in the atrium and in the winter garden. The mini games do need also JS. The new switch way and two buttons shouls no give problems. It's work in the big sources. That's forsure. But it should be not so *deftig* (can not say in English. IM means "really". That's wrong).

Perhaps an extra could be in the setting for jusing the old way with bringing the seed directly in the garden or for the new way for first only checking the seed in the detail-page.

I play another game where when you click an egg you want, it takes you to a page which says "Would you like to gather this egg?" and if you do, you can just simply click the egg. If not, you can click the back button or another link to get back to where the eggs are offered. I'm sure it is very do-able if Exterminans suggested it.

Quote from froglady

I think that if you were a new player with 0 Christmas stars and 0 poinsettias and you needed just one Christmas star seed to be able to breed to your Christmas trees to try to get two stars before the end of the event, you'd be glad that people were abandoning at the beginning and not the end.

Well froglady. Christmas stars we get by crossing from two species. The first year we cout get not so many. I think about... no, I never Christmas stars was searching in the wild. It is a crossing species (near the same as a muli ). If you have enaught from the needed flowers, you can breed and put it in the wild at each time. The event start time is the best time. But... you can say something in the forum. Otherwise new players do not looking in the wild.

Different events give us different situations and have theyr own logic. So I see the flowers world.

I love this idea! This way people who want bred seeds can get them more easily. This would be most useful around holidays so the wild garden can still hold non-holiday seeds during the "breeding only" time. New users or users wanting to grow as many seeds as possible can choose to go to the nursery while other users can visit the wild garden for more seeds.

I also like the idea of a "donate" instead of "abandon" for bred plants. I like breeding and giving away holiday plants, sometimes by abandoning them! It's a different intention when you abandon a bred plant for others to enjoy versus when you abandon a plant because you took the wrong one or something.

@Exterminans: I think seeing plant details before picking up does not solve the problem. During holiday breeding time (before the wild plants appear!) the garden will still be flooded. Players will still trash lovingly bred plants because they were not the purebloods they wanted, especially when the plants are mixed in with wild versions! Needing to individually check each seed before picking it up will be frustrating to those who want bred or wild only. Having a nursery is the best answer that makes it clear with as little checking and worry as possible.

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Ich liebe diese Idee! Auf diese Weise, die Leute wollen Samen gezüchtet, kann sie leichter bekommen. Dies wäre sehr nützlich, um Feiertage, so den Wildgarten noch nicht-Urlaub Samen während der "Zucht nur" Zeit halten kann. Neue Benutzer oder Benutzer, die wollen so viele Samen wie möglich wachsen können zu den Kindergarten gehen, während andere Benutzer den Wildgarten für mehr Samen besuchen können.

Ich mag auch die Idee einer "Spenden" anstelle von "aufgeben" gezüchtete Pflanzen. Ich mag Zucht und verschenkt Urlaub Pflanzen, manchmal durch den Verzicht auf sie! Es ist keine abweichende Absicht, wenn Sie eine gezüchtete Pflanze für andere verraten gegenüber, wenn Sie eine Pflanze aufgeben, weil Sie falsche oder etwas nahm zu genießen.

@Exterminans: Ich denke sehende Pflanze Informationen vor Abholung nicht das Problem löst. Während Urlaub Zucht Zeit (bevor die Wildpflanzen erscheinen!) werden der Garten noch überflutet. Spieler werden noch Papierkorb liebevoll gezüchtete Pflanzen, weil sie nicht die Purebloods waren, wollte sie, vor allem, wenn die Pflanzen mit wilden Versionen vermischt werden! Benötigen jeden Samen einzeln zu überprüfen, bevor die Kommissionierung es werden frustrierend für diejenigen, die gezüchtet oder wild nur wünschen. Ein Kinderzimmer ist die beste Antwort, die das es mit klar als kurzen Überprüfung und sorgen wie möglich.

Quote from froglady

The "parentless and untouched except by me" attitude is fostered by some very judgmental players on some adoptable sites, where unless you play their way you can't even trade with them or talk to them. You're a pariah unless you realize that "pureblood" is king and "mudblood" is trash. When you play enough sites like that, you feel like parentless adoptables are more valuable. It's only natural to absorb that sort of attitude when it's all you've ever known elsewhere. I've played at least 100 online game sites over 17 years, and I can tell you it's not at all friendly gamers helping each other out there. It's competition and "look what I have that you'll never get" and account numbers being status symbols. It's players coming in 4 years after the game debuted and throwing (literally) thousands of dollars at it to get to be the top of the leaderboards. It's a dog-eat-dog world out there in online gaming. This is a quiet little interlude in all the madness. It's why I like it here.

Amen to that, sister!

Quote from truelinor

Amen to that, sister!

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Quote from JCStitches

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I also must say I agree with this one.