Opinion on potential art changes (future of the game)

I know that it would be impossible for a single person to go through and correct everything, but relying on the community to do a real job is inefficient... People are typically paid to do things like that, the same as with designing new minigames and systems. I recognize a lot of spelling errors and grammar that could be improved but it would be very time-consuming for me to sit down and try to correct them all. As much as I like this game, I just don't want to devote my time to doing a job I'm not being paid to do.

That's why I think resources being devoted to those things instead of new features would be a good idea, personally. The same as with wiki upkeep, it being community driven is nice but if it falls into being outdated then new players are going to struggle for information and that makes the website less accessible. It being linked at the top makes it look official, so going to it only to find that it's really outdated makes the website look like it's being neglected.

I'm really happy to hear that the updates are unrelated, though! Then still, despite what I've said I can't help but look forward to seeing what those will be.

I would love to see the games that earned us furniture come back..... I joined up after they were all over.

You seem to need the whole "share" code:

I understand, and I didn't think that either of those things would be easy at all, but I thought "If anyone is being hired, or anything is being bought or spent on new features, I would think those resources should be redirected into these existing issues". I was only trying to say that, in my opinion, repair of existing things would make the website more polished and appealing and should take priority over new projects. As well as expanding on existing features (plants, furniture, minigames, wiki) would be easier, safer, and would make the website feel "fuller" as opposed to spending time and money on giving an experiment a shot. A new addition doesn't mean much if the rest of the website gives a neglected impression.

I wasn't proposing "hire someone long term" either, I just meant paying someone to go over what exists now and give things an update at their current point. I'm not under the illusion that these things wouldn't be expensive. And thank you for fixing the plant embeds!

Quote from fkrauthan

Fixed the image issue. Sorry about that. I added an additional change yesterday that broke it.

As for hiring someone. I am gonna be honest: Unless the game somehow starts making at least ~1000USD/month (and to put it into perspective right now the game generates around ~10-15USD/month) I will not be able to hire someone to ether keep the wiki up to date nor do a full proof read through everything (including on an ongoing effort for new plants).

So given that this project at the moment is run just by me I will have to rely on volunteers within the community to help with collecting ideas for improvements as well as fixing mistakes in the texts.

How hard would it be to resurrect the games that gave us furniture ?

But other than that - this game is free to play; kudos to you for that, and so we cannot and should not expect loads of bells and whistles unless we are in a position to invest big time. I shall go and see if the wiki needs anything just now....!

I'd just like to chime in a little bit, if that's okay!

I disagree that someone should necessarily need to be paid to proofread the Wiki at any point. I know of other web-based games that have always had entirely user-run Wikis and forum guides. There are even big live-service games that have their players submit grammar/spelling errors they find to the designated support teams.

I believe it's largely a matter of Flowergame's playerbase size. I'm certain many current players also have busier lives now than years ago. However, many hands make light work - if this game were to attract enough new players, over time, keeping the Wiki updated and error-free would be much easier and consistent. Paying someone in the short-term is only a band-aid solution. It won't guarantee continued efforts to correct the Wiki.

Of course it's okay! But I do want to explain myself and counter this a little. This website was created by people who don't have English as their first language (I presume), and official forum posts are written in both English and German, which makes me think that that's the case for some of the playerbase, too. Another thing that makes me believe this is the errors I've seen on the wiki. They are possible to understand, but they aren't grammatically correct in English, and that in addition to some things referring to ~2014 as if it's the present makes the wiki look outdated and neglected. I don't mean this with any sort of tone, I'm just stating how I see it.

There are gaps in information available to the players and I've found myself confused and searching the forum and the wiki multiple times, which is something players shouldn't need to do. I'm not trying to sound pretentious, and I personally don't mind, I prefer the current size of the website and feeling of everything, it's just that if you think of any polished and successful media it succeeds in having reliable resources available to everyone.

Flowergame can't rely on a hypothetical, eventual larger audience to fix these issues because these are issues that would turn players away.

It isn't as if an outdated wiki is the entire reason for a small playerbase, but try to imagine being an average person who doesn't know anything about Flowergame. For them, finding this might be coming across a unique website from 2009 that seems interesting and has laid-back gameplay that still feels rewarding. But even if they want to get into it, they might have thoughts like this, with each point being more and more likely to make them drop the game:
"The website needs an adblocker, but that's okay. Wow, that letter from the postpixie was kind of hard to read. I guess no one's read this since it was made. There are only a few minigames and you need to water your plants a lot... This is like the fifth time I've played this one already. Oh, there are holiday events? Is there a wiki? Oh, there is. Cool. Where can I see those... Oh, okay, I found them under "special plants". These look great. Wait, when do the holidays start? That's only available for a few days every year? There used to be furniture?? There used to be whole puzzles across the website with rewards for holidays? Wait, why does this page cut off at 2015? Does this game not have those anymore? All of the writing looks low-effort, does anyone even use this? It feels like no one cares, and the forum is really inactive, I guess this game is dead..."

That is a really plausible thought process and something that occurred to me while I was going through the wiki myself. I thought "If I wasn't as charmed by and appreciative of this game as I am, several things would have made me lose interest already."

A band-aid solution would still be a step toward fixing the core problem at this time, which is that the playerbase is too small. No one needs to think about the long-term right this moment because that makes finding any solution overwhelming. What matters is "What will help fix things up right now". I'm not saying proofreading and updating the wiki should be at the top of anyone's list of priorities, but clearly giving people interested in the game the information they need to understand and be more thoroughly invested is important.

It's a little hard to believe but I checked this forum for the first time in at least two weeks about thirty minutes after your reply somehow so this quick response is not because my hobby is debating, I genuinely just care about this game.

(Unrelated and not in response) Again, I'm completely content with the website as-is. I would never be saying any of this if the creator wasn't trying to find a solution to a shortage of users. I really like this game and find playing the same minigames relaxing because I prefer familiar, predictable things. I don't mind the way anything is written at all. I think it's a shame about the features that are gone and seemingly won't come back, but it doesn't make me want to stop playing. I thought it was exciting that I managed to get a few New Year's plants within such a short amount of time. Just for the record to anyone who might see this, I'm not complaining or trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to help with an unfortunately unpleasant voice of reason.

Quote from Floralia

I'd just like to chime in a little bit, if that's okay!

I disagree that someone should necessarily need to be paid to proofread the Wiki at any point. I know of other web-based games that have always had entirely user-run Wikis and forum guides. There are even big live-service games that have their players submit grammar/spelling errors they find to the designated support teams.

I believe it's largely a matter of Flowergame's playerbase size. I'm certain many current players also have busier lives now than years ago. However, many hands make light work - if this game were to attract enough new players, over time, keeping the Wiki updated and error-free would be much easier and consistent. Paying someone in the short-term is only a band-aid solution. It won't guarantee continued efforts to correct the Wiki.

As an aside - if anyone knows of anything in the wiki that needs correcting, at the moment this wiki-volunteer would be happy to correct it.... I am, however, in my 80s.... I agree that it is almost better to have unpaid players doing this one.

I suppose one could invite (unpaid) players to submit plants, as dragcave does....

Quote from fuzzbucket

As an aside - if anyone knows of anything in the wiki that needs correcting, at the moment this wiki-volunteer would be happy to correct it.... I am, however, in my 80s.... I agree that it is almost better to have unpaid players doing this one.

I suppose one could invite (unpaid) players to submit plants, as dragcave does....

While I'm not adept at editing the Wiki directly, I'd be happy to set aside some time to look for errors. Is there a thread in the Forums where people can post the mistakes they find?

@ Hushsound: I still think that we as players should concern ourselves with the future of the game. Doing what we can to help out and trying to work together as a community is a sustainable and economical solution that is more likely to yield positive, long-term results.

Quote from Floralia

While I'm not adept at editing the Wiki directly, I'd be happy to set aside some time to look for errors. Is there a thread in the Forums where people can post the mistakes they find?

I don't know but you can message me, if you want !

Quote from fuzzbucket

I don't know but you can message me, if you want !

Thank you for reaching out! I will message you shortly.

We must also keep in mind that some of the errors in the Wiki are in the plant descriptions, which are taken directly from the game. Changes to those texts would have to be made in-game first before the Wiki can accurately document them. Since those are based on translations, it's mostly just a matter of fine-tuning the wording to flow better with conventional English grammar and syntax.

I feel like my response was misunderstood or possibly not read at all, so I'll excuse myself from the discussion now. In the end, I was trying to say that there needs to be effort from the creator(s) to polish the website and wiki and that it can't fall entirely on the playerbase, when the playerbase is small due to the unpolished nature of those things.

It's a little idealistic to think that we can fix everything up on our own, even if everyone wants to and even in the implausible case that everyone set aside time to do it. It just isn't realistic. There needs to be professional work done, because there just aren't enough people with that much free time. I'm not saying "we shouldn't try", I'm saying "we will not be enough".

I was being as pragmatic as possible in an attempt to help.

This is a lovely quiet little game. I HONESTLY don't see why it needs polishing - except that I would like to see the treasure hunt etc return, as those of us who joined later can otherwise never furnish their wintergarden. I don't know what needs "fixing" other than language in the wiki - which is easily done and I'll get to it.

Not everything needs to be full of bells and whistles. Witness the recent rise in the number of people harking back to the old DOS text adventure games - and even the old style Lemonade Stand... If this game started to get glitzy, I'd probably abandon it.

Hushsound, I did read and understand your post to the best of my ability. I also responded. To me, the core of pragmatism is to take action using the resources that are currently available to us. No one is saying that players need to be responsible for fixing or polishing everything. My focus was on the Wiki, which is a start. To throw up our hands and say "it won't be enough" isn't pragmatic or helpful. Nor is it helpful to label the opinions of other people as simply "idealistic". It projects a dismissive attitude. A little positivity and action-oriented motivation can go a long way in taking small steps together to achieve a bigger goal.

It's been clearly expressed that hiring someone isn't a possibility. Where would you realistically suggest that money to come from?

In short, time is better spent using our English to update the Wiki together rather than to argue endlessly.

Quote from fuzzbucket

I would love to see the games that earned us furniture come back..... I joined up after they were all over.

Very behind on keeping up with the forums, so I'm late in replying to this - but it's something I would also love to see happen if there is any way possible.

Perhaps another area we can decorate in addition to the 3 we have? Just a thought

The only one that really bugs me is the winter garden - because it looks rubbish with nothing in it !

The Winter Garden is definitely my favourite one - I would like others to have a chance to get things for it too! I'd also like to see games for more furniture return. And I wish for a new garden area - I have so many favourite plants and there aren't enough places to display them!

On the original topic of a potential art change: I do prefer the current style. I enjoy pixel art, so that style of the plants is very sentimental and delightful to me. Option 1 (low poly 3D) looks pretty neat and modern though; and I like the idea of having a 3D garden to "walk" around in.

I adore the pixel art/tooling style !! forgive me if im wrong, but the art style is currently not pure pixel art, but a pixel outline/base with tool shading for details, yes? this art style is very unique, and special to me. i used to be on avatar forum sites a lot, and a few of them used this tooling/pixel style for the avatars and items! I created some items there as well. I really love this art style!

I dislike the new potential styles... but what worries me much more is that this posts says these were AI generated... : / I am very very much against AI especially in the use of art. I know you said the final product would use a real artist, but i feel any use of AI art generation damages artists everywhere. > .< AI art generators stole data from real artists in order to create their engines... i am not trying to be too negative or critical, i just have very strong opinions about AI art. : /

wanting to bring more people into the game is great!! trying to think of something new to entice people can be a good idea. however, i think you might have better success trying to bring back original users of the game rather than cater to a new audience. perhaps I am only projecting , but I totally forgot this site existed until I got an email about it. I am pretty excited to get back into it! I have been reading some of the forum posts, and I see people mentioning furniture and im like !!!!!!!!!! 0.0 I WANT FURNITURE !!! and i wanna participate in the events ...

i feel like, bringing back some features and events, and creating new events and flowers, might be the direction to go in to bring back users to the site ! perhaps adding a new mini game, or even adding a small new feature to the game could do it! i am not sure how changing the style of the flowers would bring in a large amount of new people tbh : / i am 33, but i dont think the majority of younger people would ever be interested in a game like this or dragoncave. i like slow pace, but EVERYTHING these days is fast fast fast, and young people have grown up with that. but the very nature of a game like this is chill and NOT quick. so it will likely not be very appealing to many young people, ever, even with an art style change.

Quote from earlobeness

i feel like, bringing back some features and events, and creating new events and flowers, might be the direction to go in to bring back users to the site ! perhaps adding a new mini game, or even adding a small new feature to the game could do it! i am not sure how changing the style of the flowers would bring in a large amount of new people tbh : / i am 33, but i dont think the majority of younger people would ever be interested in a game like this or dragoncave. i like slow pace, but EVERYTHING these days is fast fast fast, and young people have grown up with that. but the very nature of a game like this is chill and NOT quick. so it will likely not be very appealing to many young people, ever, even with an art style change.

EXACTLY this. Bringing back the events would help a lot, if that could be done with their existing coding ? but taking away the lovely leisurely pace would not be a good thing at all. There are plenty of whizzy games out there; we need variety.